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Sunday, February 14, 2010

A question from Portugal about condensation in a Kf181 Solahart


Dear Gary

I installed the 30 days of a panel Kf181 Solahart in Portugal. A few days began to condensation as seen in the picture.
The installer said this is normal and that when the sun is stronger, condensation will disappear.
The days here in Portugal has varied between sunny days with low humidity (0 to 10 C) and rainy days (from 10 to 15 º C).

What do you think of should I do? Order replacement panels?

I would also like to know the opinion about the brand Solahart. Here she is riding high. And the other brands, also give that problem?

Regards
Paulo
________________________________
Gary replies:
As you browse this website you will see numerous examples of Solahart and other brands with multiple installation faults and serious problems with corrosion.

The Solahart above is showing the precursor for fatal corrosion. I would never personally have this installed on my roof since it has the same corrosion and performance issues of the failed Sola60 brand (Please refer to the examples of sola60 on this site as well as the Branz technical reports). There is no solution from industry to the condensation problem, other than to downplay its significance.

The photo above also indicates that there is a problem with insulation of the pipe work - or should I say - lack of insulation. All pipe work to and from the storage cylinder and the solar panels should be properly insulated.

Solar water heating systems should be closed circulation systems with heat exchange within the cylinder. Open circulation systems have problems with internal scale buildup and corrosion which progressively reduce the system's thermal efficiency. I am not sure if this one is a closed system. If it is not, I would be inclined to have it removed.

I wonder as well about how secure the panel is fastened to the roof. It must be securely bolted to the underlying structural framework and any boltholes properly waterproofed to last for at least a decade.

Having said this, the panel in the photo may be due for the scrapheap by 5-8 years.

Make sure you get these matters resolved well within your warranty.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007

So, you discovered that you do not have a Building Consent foryour solar water heating system!

So you do not have a Building Consent, your house insurance is compromised, it is going to take you months and the cost of getting a Certificate of Compliance is months away and already well over $1,000 in costs! Furthermore; the company that did the installation is taking cover and hiding from its responsibilities - playing smoke and mirrors by cunningly changing ownership between husband/wife/son. Other companies are using the aggressive direct approach and simply tellling their customers to go away!

Advisory and regulatory gencies and politicians are telling you that getting a building consent is your responsibility. There is no sign of there ever being a coordinated rescue package, let alone a product recall. This is an unconscionable exercise in damage control by those who helped make the mess. How dare they offer no help while shifting the blame onto the victim. My advice to the thousands of affected consumers is not to let them off the hook - make those responsible for this mess pay for the clean-up.

I have been receiving about three inquiries per day about this matter and I wonder when the agencies who should be showing leadership are going to step up to the plate?


Thursday, June 28, 2007

the word is getting out

Check this out:
www.grownups.co.nz - Rusty panels


Saturday, June 23, 2007

Gary Moller's response to Janette Fitzsimons interview with Paul Henry


(Click on the image above to see the Closeup Video. You have to wait for the ad to run before viewing the programme.)

Here is my response to some of the things that Jeanette Fitzsimons said in her interview with Paul Henry:



It is time for politicians to stop playing politics, including stopping obfuscating the facts. It is time for leadership. It is time for solutions that are in the best interests of the consumer and the environment. The Branz reports here are ample evidence on their own that there are numerous warrantable issues, including the matter of discolouration of panel surfaces. These reports present a compelling case for some kind of product recall, probably dating back to 2003 when building consents became mandatory for most SWH installations.

Some experts claim there is no evidence that a change of colour of the collector surface has an adverse effect on performance. To make such claims flies in the face of the most basic rules of the physics of light. In this video I go back to school to give a lesson:



you are welcome to leave a message in the "Comments" below.

I am working on a new page for solar water heating systems that appear to be going the distance. This is to assist consumers with making good choices because the Government's guide, http://www.solarsmarter.org.nz/ is of little real help when it comes to the crunch of making a really informed decision.

So, come back this way now and then and please tell people you know who are into solar to do the same. Thank you.


Thursday, June 21, 2007

Reports commissioned by EECA outline the problems

Here they are; hot off the press along with analysis and commentary:

Branz report about seven Wellington installations

Branz report about solar water heating systems

Reponse from Solahart

Response of Sola60

Reponse of Gary Moller

Response of Gary Moller to Solahart letter

NB: I have used the wrong terminology in places: Where I refer to a "Certificate of Compliance", this should read " Certificate of Acceptance" . As a matter of interest, applications for a Certificate of Acceptance are made as per Building Act 2004 Sections 96,97,98 & 99.

Post your comments
You are invited to post your comments by clicking on the "comments" tab at the foot of this or any other posting


Saturday, June 02, 2007

Solar water-heating alert issued by Consumer's Institute

"Flat panel" solar water-heating system owners beware. If you have one of these solar water-heating systems, we advise having the panel checked for deterioration.
Gary Moller noticed a steady drop in the peak temperatures of the water from his Sola60 system.
He checked the panels on his roof, and discovered what looked like corrosion. The panels were replaced - twice - but the problem returned. Gary has since had his system removed, and received a refund. But this was only after he created a website documenting the problems.
(Click on title for the full article)
Consumer's Institute Alert 31/05/2007

___________________________________

Gary Moller comments:
At last the story is finally out and now let's hope that the media will pick up this story and run with it.

As one industry insider commented to me yesterday: "this news is absolutely huge". So, why is it not huge news yet?

What I do take issue with is that the Consumer's Institute is focussing only on Sola60 when it is obvious that this is a problem that affects other makes and models.

The question must be asked: Why has Consumer not demanded a product recall when there is overwhelming evidence (As detailed on this site) of there being a serious and widespread problem? And why have there not been calls for a proper investigation to determine the extent?

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Friday, June 01, 2007

Sola60 Promises to stand by its products and to look after its customers

29 May 2007

Dear Mr Moller

Further to our earlier conversations, I confirm the panel discolouration issue identified on your web site relates to a limited historical issue.

To put this issue into perspective, Sola6O has installed over 10,000 panels throughout New Zealand and the number of warranty claims relating to any deterioration of the panel surface is around one percent.

Sola6O has a continuous focus on research, development and product testing. This testing has confirmed the high performance of the current Sola6O product range and random audits of Sola6O installations provide an additional quality control measure.

I’d also like to confirm that SoIa6O stands behind the quality of its products and encourage any Sola6O customer that may have a concern about their panel to contact us on

0800 765 260,
by emailing
customercare@sola60.co.nz or by writing directly to:
The Management TeamSola6O
NZP0 Box 2310
Tauranga

I would appreciate it if you would include these details on your web site to make it simple for customers to contact us should they have any questions or concerns about their Sola6O system.

Yours sincerely
Sandra Bell
Business Manager
_______________________
Gary Moller comments:
While it could be argued that Sandra is tactfully down-playing the full extent of the problem, this is wonderful news for Sola60 customers. So, congratulations to the management of Sola60 for taking a positive position for its customers!

It must be emphasised that Sola60 is not the only brand that is identified as having problems. These problems (as detailed on this website) include shoddy installation, inadequate lagging and no building consents as well as corrosion/discoloration or whatever one wants to call it.

Even if you are outside of your warranty, still raise the issue with Sola60 and please do let us know how you get on.

If your installation does not have a building consent; but one is required (Check with your local Council), you should not have to pay the extra costs. Talk to the people who installed your system and who should have been responsible for obtaining the necessary consents.

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Which solar water heating system is best for New Zealand conditions?

"Although the value of COP (Co-efficient of Performance). effectively determines the overall performance of the tested systems and allows comparisons to be made, it is of more use to potential buyers of solar and heat pump systems to compare financial figures which incorporate both performance and the costs of the systems. For Dunedin the evacuated tube system gives an attractive Internal Rate of Return (IRR) of 9.0% and a positive Net Present Value (NPV) of $936 using a discount rate of 5% (after tax). The heat pump system in Dunedin also gives a positive NPV of $263, while both flat-plate models give negative NPV’s. For the Auckland estimation the evacuated tube system still yields the most favourable economic result with an IRR of 10.3% due to its low capital cost, despite having a slightly lower COP than both the heat pump or flat-plate thermosyphon systems. In the Auckland location all systems except the flat-plate pumped circulation system give attractive economic results. "
"The main conclusion from this study is that it is important to test actual systems before making any assumptions about energy savings and or economic performance. In particular it can be seen that the high cost of installed systems in NZ makes it difficult for them to achieve good economic return on capital. It is also clear that evacuated tube systems need to be taken into serious consideration as a preferred system type, especially for the cooler parts of the country.
The performance of the flat-plate pumped circulation system has proved to be highly suspect and possibly dependant on the fact that it was a ‘retrofit’ installation to an existing domestic hot water cylinder.
This is an important finding, as there are no on site performance tests for solar hot water systems undertaken and many New Zealand systems may be seriously underperforming, perhaps unbeknown to the house owner."
Source:
Experimental and Simulated Performance of Commercially available Solar and Heat-pump Water Heaters in New Zealand - S.E. Thomas and C.R. (Bob) Lloyd, Energy Management Department, University of Otago
________________________________________
Commentary:
This report indicates that there may be serious performance issues with flat plate panels; especially with those that are retrofitted to existing hot water cylinders. This report does not take account the almost universal and progressive corrosion of flat panel surfaces that begins to become visible and within months of installation in some cases.

There is also a further progressive loss of performance over the years on non-heat exchange flat panel systems caused by internal corrosion and buldup of deposits on the internals of the system. Heat exchange systems that use liquids like glycol in them are more expensive and this must be taken account when comparing performance to initial cost and return on investment over the years.

From a straight dollar return on investment, it is difficult to recommend any kind of flat panel system at this stage. As the report indicates, more research is required because "many New Zealand systems may be seriously underperforming".

Evacuated Solar Tubes
The evacuated solar tube systems look very promising and I met a number of very satified owners. While their durability in the NZ setting still needs to be confirmed, inspection of existing setups in the Wellington Region show that they are promising. As the study referred to above indicates, these systems crank out the heat and do so in poor light conditions.

In their favour is their relative low initial cost and ease of installation. However; I am very cautious to make a recommendation as to which brand to go with and caution that cheaper is not necessarily best - And not all evacuated tube systems have the same performance as the best of them. So I have been advised by industry experts.

Not all evacuated tubes are the same, as is the case with flat panel systems. You get very much get what you pay for and that there are any number of cheap Chinese made systems available that should be treated with caution, although not discounted outright. Similarly, you should be wary that there may be brands passing themselves off as European when in fact they are Chinese made components and may not be of the same quality as those European made systems. You are seeking a system that will last as long as two decades, so take care.

Ensure that the tubes meet the NZ and Australian standards for roof mounted structures with regards to resistance to hail damage.

Because each tube is independent of the other, the owner can easily remove and replace a damaged tube. These tubes are delicate but light weight. This amounts to being able to provide ongoing onsite maintenance; whereas replacement of a heavy flat panel that is faulty is quite an exercise and each unit is costly. This ease of servicing makes sense for a roof mounted system that has to last for decades.

Damaged tubes are recyclable which is a huge plus for the green household.

My recommendation is to look closely and carefully at the emerging evacuated tube technology when shopping around for a solar water heating system.
Here is an interesting TV3 video item worth looking at. Of course, what it is telling you, the viewer, is based on the assumption that all panels will still be working effficiently 5 years later! Take care when selecting what is best for you.

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Thursday, March 29, 2007

Corroding solar water heating panels discovered in Sydney Australia

As we suspected dry Australia - the "land of fire" is equally affected. Here are examples from two Sydney installations which are the first and only ones inspected at random to date. The person who took these photos did so by walking down a Sydney street and selecting the first two he randomly came across.

The first photo is of a Solahart that is estimated, by the manufacturer, to be over 23 years old. What is significant is that the white corrosion is visible from the ground.

The following two photos are of a Solahart installation that is a little over three years old and visibly corroded.

What these and the many other photos on this website show is that there is a progressive deterioration of flat panel collector surfaces over their lifetime. Depending on make this process is beginning as early as 6 months after installation.

According to EECA of NZ a 20 year pay back period is required for a Solahart installation and that assumes near 100% performance over that period. It is assumed that this will be a shorter period in Australia.

Please ask your friends and neighbours with solar water heating to check their systems and ask them to send me digital photos of what they find.

We are seeking to identify systems that do not have signs of discoloration. Please help.

Thank you.

For more information go here.


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Wednesday, March 21, 2007

What does it really cost to get a certificate of compliance?

In my advice about what to do if your solar water system's installer did not obtain a Building Consent before proceeding, I stated that the cost for getting a Certificate of Compliance was $700-plus as compared to about $80 if the the job had been done right.

Here is a quotation from a letter from Wellington City Council to an elderly couple who have a new Solahart installation that did not have a building consent. With the help of the Installer, an application for a Certificate of Compliance was submitted:

"Your documentation is being returned because the Council does not accept incomplete applications

The following information is needed....:
  1. Provide the application fee of $690
  2. Confirm the system has compliance with NZS 2718
  3. Provide a roof plan showing the proposed location of the panels
  4. Provide fixing details of the panels and the method of making the pipe penetrations through the roofing cladding watertight
  5. Provide two copies of documentations and drawings"

The letter also states that the cost of inspections is $120 per hour.

This elderly couple can not provide this detailed information without the assistance of a plumber and an architect. They estimate the cost will be about $1,500 all up and will take some months to be completed.

In the meantime, their house insurance is compromised by having unconsented work on their house.


Saturday, February 24, 2007

Did Branz and EECA know there might be a performance problem early 2006?

You be the judge.....
"One of the biggest uncertainties in the cost/benefit analysis of solar water heating systems is the lack of reliable field data for system performances. Anecdotal evidence suggests that most existing systems fall significantly short of the calculated values used during the system design. This information gap needs to be urgently addressed by conducting a representative field study of existing solar water systems in New Zealand. "
Go here to read the report.

"The main conclusion from this study is that it is important to test actual systems before making any assumptions about energy savings and or economic performance. In particular it can be seen that the high cost of installed systems in NZ makes it difficult for them to achieve good economic return on capital. It is also clear that evacuated tube systems need to be taken into serious consideration as a preferred system type, especially for the cooler parts of the country. The performance of the flat-plate pumped circulation system has proved to be highly suspect and possibly dependant on the fact that it was a ‘retrofit’ installation to an existing domestic hot water cylinder. This is an important finding, as there are no on site performance tests for solar hot water systems undertaken and many New Zealand systems may be seriously underperforming, perhaps unbeknown to the house owner. "
Go here for to read the full report.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007

Corroding solar water heating panels "A serious failure"

"Hi Gary,
I just discovered your web-site over the the weekend and decided to take a look at my solar panel.
Thanks for the publicity on the issue and advice!
Like many others I may have been oblivious to what I consider a serious failure."
Anon.
_________________________
Gary Moller comments:
If you know of people who have solar water heating panels installed please urge them to carry out their own inspection independent of who did the installation. Solar panels are the perfect product - out of sight - out of mind until well out of the warranty period.

Notes about these Wellington panels:
  • Installed about 16 months ago with a required payback period of over 10yrs
  • All of the panel is seriously faded or corroded
  • No building consent obtained by the installer
  • Cost of a building consent would have been about $50: Is now about $700 to get a Certificate of Acceptance
  • The same problems with rusty solar water heating panels exists in Australia

Refer here for more information about rusty solar panels.

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Blink It

Corroding solar water heating panels found in Auckland


"Hi,
Panel itself has a white oxidised coating almost all over. It was installed only a year ago.
Cheers"

Dave
_____________________________
Gary Moller comments:
This problem is a nationwide one that potentially affects thousands of unsusupecting householders.

Readers, I need your assistance:
This is an installation on a refurbished South Auckland Housing Corp property. Apparently, Housing NZ has invested heavily in these systems. Dave tells me this is typical of the ones he has seen on Housing Corp rooftops.

The photograph, while a little blurred, clearly shows a whitish panel surface that should be a dark grey-black. White is not a good colour for collecting solar energy!

This is a very significant photo because it shows that the near 100% corrosion rate that I have demonstrated is happening to solar water heating panels in Wellington is not a regional freak happening. I am awaiting information about whether the same pattern is showing in Australia.

These systems are being sold to the unsuspecting public on the promise that they are good for the environment and will save the householder money. They will do neither if they progressively lose function and are as good as junk by five years. We are contributing to global warming and creating a landfill problem by installing these sub-standard systems.


Readers, If you know of any solar water heating panels sitting on a roof nearby, please can you assist by arranging with the owner to take a look at the state of the panels. Please take digital photos and send them to me with a description of the system, including brand, age and location. If they are in perfect conditioin, I want to know because these are a rarity. What's the situation in other places like the US?

For more information about this solar water heating panel problem, including safety information, go to these pages and have a good read.

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